YOU are serving your second term as the leader of the Christian community in Nigeria. How has the experience been? There have been challenges and difficulties. I must say that I am working with many good people — Christians and non-Christians. I rejoice because in the midst of the difficulties, I have hope for Nigeria. It has been tough, but it has been good as well. 2013 was a most troubling year for the country. We have entered into 2014 which signifies 100 years after our amalgamation.
How would you describe the expired 2013 as CAN president? I will describe 2013 as a year of discovery. I think Nigerians are beginning to discover themselves. In life, you cannot go very far, if you don’t know who you are. Identity matters a lot. That is why I am so excited about the national conference that is coming up. This discovery of who we are is going to actually end up with that national conference. It is at that conference that we will be able to put on the table what our aspirations are, what we have as expectations. At that event, we will be able to table our agitations. We will table the things that unite us as well. There are a lot of misguided people.
These are people who have extremist ideas — ideas that are fundamentally sectional. These are ideas that can divide the country. One thing that Nigerians have not been able to appreciate is the fact that as the leader of the Christian community in Nigeria, we have succeeded in restraining any retaliation in the midst of all the provocations, killings, and misunderstandings. Many people have not come to comprehend and appreciate that. If it had not happened that way, we wouldn’t be talking about Nigeria today. If there had been reprisals in the South, where would Nigeria have been today? If Christians had taken up arms and done exactly what some of our friends and brothers had done and are still doing, it would have been a horrible situation.
As Christians, we will continue to be restrained because that is what our religion teaches us. What agenda will CAN espouse on the table of the national conference? Well Kehinde, the table is not here yet. Why don’t we wait for the table to come and at that point, we will be able to put it on that table. For now, I will say that we join other well-meaning Nigerians to say that the national conference is probably one of the best things that ever happened to Nigeria. If we handle it well, it will definitely bring about a rebirth of an incredibly powerful nation. Many people condemned the action of some Niger Delta clerics who tried to intervene in the crisis of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP).
What really happened? I won’t touch that issue because I don’t even know them. You are often very particular about the unity of the body of Christ. Why is this so? What you have to understand about Christianity is that it is a religion that guarantees every individual’s importance. Every Christian is important, not to talk of leaders. Every Christian leader is important. I acknowledge that. Christianity is such that it enshrines within itself the provision of freedom of speech, movement, association and of being who you are.
This body of Christ is more important than any individual. Yes, individuals make up the body, but the body is the sum total of the individuals. If we think of the well-being of the body, it will help us on how we approach each other and what we do to one another. There is a practice among some Christian clerics who come out with various prophecies, particularly negative, at the commencement of a New Year. How do you feel when you hear these things? I have been a pastor for 41 years. I think that this is very shameful because I happen to know most of these people.
They are just people who want attention. They are people who want to make money. They are seeking relevance; they want to be connected. They feel that if they talk the way they do, the political class will be threatened and frightened and would run to them to seek help from them. It is sad. We don’t pray for bloodshed. Nobody desires it. If you are seeing bloodshed, with the same eyes with which you see it, let those eyes show you how to stop it. Go and pray. Do something to stop the bloodshed. Why is it that you only tell us that there will be bloodshed, but you do not tell us how this bloodshed can be stopped? Or do we have to come and kneel before you before the bloodshed is stopped? Some of them are hungry and those who are not seek attention; they want to be relevant. Some of them want money. Nigerians should not bother about them.
They should concentrate on God, on Christ the solid rock. He is the one that can make and unmake. He is the one that raises and brings down. He is the one that can sustain. He can make alive and take any life. Many people are bothered that you are too close to President Goodluck Jonathan and they feel that such closeness hinders a clear assessment on your part of the actions of the Presidency. What will be your reaction to that? Kehinde, I sit back and I am puzzled. Certain persons just like to portray certain people in certain ways. The press has the power to create a perception that people will probably grab and believe. Is Word of Life Bible Church the only church that Jonathan goes to? Jonathan visits other churches. All these other churches that he visits have no direct relevance to his place as a president and as a Christian. This people seem to forget that for now, Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor is the president of the Christian Association of Nigeria — the umbrella body of all Christians, including President Jonathan. If you look at it closely, I am his pastor by the virtue of the position that I occupy. First, President Jonathan is an Anglican. Every time Anglicans hold their synod, he is there.
So, why is it that they don’t say anything about that? I will be surprised if he is not there because he is an Anglican. He should be there. In fact, I will encourage him to be there because before he became president, he was an Anglican. If he were not president, would he not have continued attending the Anglican Church? He would have. He goes to different churches. He goes to the Roman Catholic Church. He goes to other pentecostal churches. Why shouldn’t he? Is anything wrong with a sitting president who is a Christian going to church to pray, going to church to join in a celebration? Our state governors go to churches; they visit mosques. There are some Muslim governors who visit churches.
It puzzles me. In Aso Rock, there is a chaplain that meets with Jonathan every day and he should. This is good. It is the responsibility of that chaplain and he is carrying it out very well. But I am not that chaplain. There are other clerics that are with him much more. It is not as though the president lives in my house. You are in my house right now. Did you meet him here? No sir. If there is a national event, I should be there as the leader of all Christians, especially if it is a national Christian event. He happens to be the president of the country and he happens to be a Christian, so, he is going to be there. I will be there also. Perceptions can be damaging and it is the way certain people portray it. Sometimes, I suspect that it is done intentionally. In 2012, I addressed the American Congress and I said some very strong things against the American government.
I also said some things that were not too good about the Nigerian government. In fact, when I came home, I read in the papers where certain persons were saying that I should be arrested for going to the American Congress to talk like that. Yet, people say I don’t say anything against the government. Have you listened to my messages at every national event where I have preached? The press does not publicise my messages. I see it as intentional. At the last October programme that was held at the Christian Centre in Abuja, Nigeria’s president was there; the Senate president was there; all the top government officials were there; the military was represented. Among other things, I appealed to them that all appointed and elected government officials across board in Nigeria should, out of compassion for the millions of jobless people, forfeit half of their salaries for one year.
I told them that a dedicated account should be opened and be run by credible Nigerians. This money should be used to start medium scale industries to employ the teeming jobless millions of youths. Kehinde, it did not appear in any paper the next day. Both the print and broadcast media were there, but none reported what I said. We have had Muslim presidents before now and heads of state, but they were not criticised for practising their religion. Do you believe that there are some people who are benefitting from the crisis that is going on in the country? I believe that strongly. I say that because if they are not, they would have come out to help end this crisis, especially the crisis caused by Boko Haram. They believe that at the end of the day, it would help their very myopic, self-centred ideas.
If you create a monster, the monster will come for you eventually. How do you think that the Federal Government can win this war against terrorism with the alleged international financiers of the sect? Where and when I need to commend the government, I will do that. When I need to criticise them, I will do that. I commend the government. Declaring a state of emergency in those three states was one of the best moves made by the Federal Government. At the time it was declared, some of us were already aware that Boko Haram had already overrun more than half of the local governments in Borno State. They had hoisted their flags. They had brought down the Nigerian flag.
They had sacked the local government officials. They were already taxing people in those places. The Borno State governor was only governing less than half of the state as of the time the state of emergency was declared. How can you expect a sitting president, in such situation, to sit down and do nothing? Today, the Borno State government controls all the local governments. We are dealing with high-level criminality. These are people whose ideologies are totally twisted and there are many of their kind all over the world. Boko Haram is not local; it is international. A lot of them, right from the beginning, were trained in Morocco, Libya, Yemen and Somalia.
They have had funds. There are Nigerians who finance them. There is a lot more to be done. Nigeria must have its international partners to fight this. We have challenges within our own system. Our borders are very porous. It is totally unacceptable. They need to do very serious recruitment in the security agencies. While recruiting, they must be very careful of those being brought in. The security agencies must work together. They must fight sabotage in the security agencies. It is appalling and shameful that there are people in the security agencies who give information to Boko Haram. I say it boldly. Then, the clerics of these people should get involved in a process of re-indoctrination. There is also the need to generate employment opportunities across the country. It shouldn’t be only for Muslim Northerners. What about Christian Northerners? The amount of money that the Jonathan administration is spending on the North is big and yet, they say the man is not doing anything. In all these places where you have Al-Majiri schools, there are Christian children.
They can’t go to all these Al-Majiri schools. What happens to them? Where is the provision for those Christian children? I know that there are those who will misunderstand me again. I say this without any bias. Equity and justice is an essential commodity for peace and progress of any nation. There are Christians among the Hausa-Fulani and Kanuri. They came to visit me about three weeks ago. They were led by retired General Dikko. He is the president of the Christian Association of Hausa/Fulani/Kanuri. They complained specifically that their children couldn’t go to the Al-Majiri schools. They are not Muslims. Their children are at home roaming the streets. What about the over 300 tribes who are not Muslims but live in the North? What is the plan for their education as well? If that is not done, a time bomb is being set for the future. What is wrong is wrong.
I say this with all sense of love, humility and carefulness. I challenge the human rights groups and the civil society groups; let them come to me and find out. They are only bothered about the rights of Boko Haram. What about the rights of all these victims of the attacks? About two weeks ago, I gave N2 million to the Christian Association of Hausa/Fulani/Kanuri as a revolving loan. That is a meagre amount, but it is to tell you how poor these people are. Only four days ago, the Sayawa people from the Bugoro and Tafawa Balewa local governments of Bauchi State came to visit me. These are Christians. They are deprived. The headquarters of their local government have been moved to a different location by the State House of Assembly. The only girl school in their area was closed down. The Christian girls have been roaming the streets, while the Muslim girls were moved to another school. If what I am saying is wrong, let the civil society groups go there and ask questions.
Aside the Federal Government, are there roles that individuals should play in the fight against this problem? The foundation of Boko Haram is religious ideology. Shekau was reported to have stated in a video that they are fighting President Jonathan and Christians. It is not unemployment, ethnic war or politics. It is purely a religious genocide. This is not a war because on our side as Christians, we are not retaliating. Where are the civil society groups? What are they doing? Are they looking at these people who are being attacked with the intention of wiping them out because an Islamic state is intended? The Muslim religious leaders, the Muslim political leaders and the Muslim traditional rulers must come together and agree that they want Nigeria. If they agree that they want Nigeria, it means that they want a country where everyone is equal and everyone is free to practise his religion.
They must begin to preach this to their people at the mosques and grass roots.
They should preach this to the Al-Majiris. They must convince a lot of the Islamic scholars and teachers that Nigeria is a viable project. After they must have agreed that they want Nigeria, they should approach us. I am not talking about a kind of dialogue where we just drink tea and take photographs. I am talking about putting all our cards on the table. There are many issues to discuss. They should put their own issues on the table and we would put ours on the table. Without this, we will not be able to solve this problem. A religious war has not started in Nigeria; what we have now is genocide. It is purely one-sided. War involves two parties. Christians are not armed. They have no guns; they have no bullets. They only have God and prayer. We want to prevent a religious war because a religious war will end Nigeria. Nelson Mandela is not celebrated because he is a man of peace. That is only half of Mandela’s life.
What of the Nelson Mandela who took up arms and said ‘no. This cannot go on?’ He even refused to dialogue with these people because he said ‘anyone that does not see me as a human being cannot be dialogued with.’ He was put in jail for that. He was fighting for the freedom of his people. I will never take up arms; never. But I must say that I cannot keep quiet in the face of truth and reality. The only reason Mandela agreed to come out of prison was because apartheid stopped. He forgave. He didn’t hate the white man, but he hated the white man’s actions. Our people are very religious: Christians and Muslims. That is the reason we can have a great nation, but we must have it as equals.
I don’t believe in what people call ‘tolerance’. There should be mutual respect of religions and not tolerance. I don’t want to tolerate you and I don’t want you to tolerate me. I want you to respect me and I want to respect you. I want you to respect the way I worship God and I want to respect the way you worship God. Let’s respect each other’s religions. I am not against Muslims. The leader of the Muslims in this country is my friend. He is a great man. We have worked together. I am challenging them to face the reality of the situation. We must look at the marginalisation of Christian communities in all these states. We must look at the root of Boko Haram. I am crying out with all the love of God in my heart that we should save Nigeria. I am not saying these things out of hatred. I love Nigeria. I believe we can have a greater, better country.
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